1. Is there Biblical Support for the Charismata ending?
But it's a handy term referring to all of the "gift": tongues, prophecy, miracles, signs, exorcism, etc. The Bible itself talks about all of these things happening during the time of the Apostles. They healed the sick (the cripple), cast out demons (Paul and the sons of the rabbi), prophesied over people (Ananias and Sapphira), and spoke in tongues. But according to those terming themselves cessationist, all of these died out with the closure of the Biblical canon. In other words, when the Bible came into its final form, the gifts simultaneously ceased in manifestation.
However, what Biblical support is there for this position? Did not Jesus command the disciples to do all of these things in the Great Commission? Did Paul or any apostle even hint at the cessation of the gifts? Why then did Paul write for so long about how we must utilize spiritual gifts if these sections are irrelevant for the last 1800+ years? The only passage that I have ever heard quoted is 1 Cor 13:8-12:
"Love never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."
However, I see two problems with using this verse.
One, it never explicitly states the time at which the gifts cease. Without bias, I always understood this passage to mean that when Jesus returns, we shall see him face to face and thus there won't be a need for prophecies and imperfect revelations. Even John didn't understand everything or know what he was describing in relevation. Paul is simply describing the fact that even though we have been empowered and filled with the Spirit, we are still carnal and imperfect until we are glorified.
Two, it is taken out of context. The context is that Paul is detailing to the Corinthians how to use and utilize their gifts. It isn't a "Well hold your horses, pal, just so you know, once I finish writing this here book, all those gifts y'all have are gonna disappear". He says "I desire you all to speak in tongues." in the very next section!
To me, this passage is most naturally interpreted as a simple clarification that the gifts are simply an imperfect empowerment, one that doesn't come close to the glory and power manifest in the Second Coming.
2. There are no more miracles
For cessationists, I've always wondered: how do they shut their eyes to the fact that the gifts are manifest in today's world? Miracles are happening. Doctors have documented the dead being raised, blind people receiving sight, and cancer patients suddenly being cancer-free. To be very clear, there are documented cases of people without body parts suddenly having these restored. These have no natural explanation yet can be seen with the eyes and documented naturally. How then are these things explained? Clearly, they aren't the work of Satan.
I prefer the interpretation lining up with Acts 2:
“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;"
“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;"
I prefer the interpretation that the Great Commission holds true till Jesus returns. That the Holy Spirit has been given to empower us to do miracles, perform signs, cast out demons, heal the sick, etc.
So what do I suggest you do?
1. Read more about miracles, and the gifts. Read the Bible with open eyes. You'll soon see that the gifts are an integral part of the church model.
2. Pray and ask for the Holy Spirit's filling after reading. If you do believe that you have received the Holy Spirit, ask for the gifts. For this is commanded in Scripture.
3. If you are in a church where these things are not manifest, ask yourself whether you can be part of the change. Ask your pastor to either rethink his position or preach more often about it.
I know this is controversial, but I also believe that pursuit of the Holy Spirit and the manifestation of the gifts is an integral part of any healthy church.
Can't wait to get the hate mail comments. :) If there's enough controversy/discussion, I'll do a Q&A follow-up post on Friday or Monday.
Excellent post; and a very good outline of my own beliefs. I sometimes ask myself in light of the position of cessationists: if the works of the devil are abounding in today's world (works such as sickness, disease, violence, demon possession) why would that which our Father has given us to combat those evil works be taken away from us? That simply does not make sense. Paul says in Ephesians 4:11-13 "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..." Have we reached that stature yet? Has the church become that perfect man? Of course not! As Daniel said, that perfection is realized at the sounding of the last trumpet, with the resurrection of the dead, and the swallowing up of these carnal dwelling places by God's perfect light and life. All considered, Jesus didn't say "Go build my Kingdom" and then take away the tools we need to build it. No. He has in fact given us His Spirit, which manifests the life of God through healing, prophecy, edification, etc. And there has never been a greater need for these tools/gifts than the present.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with your position, excellent post by the way, but I have a minor objection to suggestions #2.
ReplyDelete"Pray and ask for the Holy Spirit's filling after reading. If you do believe that you have received the Holy Spirit, ask for the gifts. For this is commanded in Scripture."
As far as I know, the Bible does not command believers to pray for the filling of the Holy Spirit. Paul does express his desire for his sheep to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but he does not command or even ask them to pray for this filling.
The reason? A believer is filled with the Holy Spirit after justification to facilitate sanctification. Thus, to ask for the filling of the Holy Spirit is to ask is for something that has already been done. It is appropriate to pray for some things that are already true, like asking for God to be glorified. However I do not believe that being filled with the Holy Spirit is one of these truths.
Asking for re-justification posits that Christ's work on the cross is not eternal in time frame and infinite in magnitude and supply. Likewise, asking to be filled with the Holy Spirit posits that one has not been filled with the Holy Spirit, which is false. Both assumptions contradict two large portions of the Christian worldview, and as such will lead to wrong-headed thinking and grief.
Sorry for the long post, but here is my good friend's explanation of the distinction between Salvation and the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
DeleteIn every instance in Acts (there are 5 of them) it was a separate experience except for Acts 10 at Cornelius' house. It seems to have been simultaneously, although one could say they believed in their hearts and after they did the Spirit fell and baptized them. Of course for one to believe Acts 2 was a separate experience, one would have to believe the disciples were born again before the day of Pentecost, which I believe they were. Jesus had already rose from the dead, went to the right hand of the Father and returned and they believed on Him; He breathed on the disciples in John 20 and told them to receive the Holy Spirit, and when He left they went to Jerusalem with joy it said (as opposed to being in fear in the upper room before) already exhibiting the fruit of the spirit of joy. They weren't in fear any longer.
The most definitive example of the separate experience is Acts 8. In a nutshell, they received the Word of Christ, and were baptized (saved), and then sent for Peter and John to come lay hands on the to receive the Holy Spirit:
Acts 8
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
That's about as clear as you can get. They were saved but weren't filled or baptized in the Holy Spirit until Peter and John came and laid hands on them.
In Acts 19, Paul asks the men from Ephesus if they had received the Holy Spirit since they believed. So Paul's doctrine was that you could be a believer but not have 'received' the Holy Spirit. Now he found out they actually hadn't been born again yet, but he didn't know that when he originally asked.
Acts 2, 10, 19 they spoke in tongues when filled. Acts 8 it doesn't say but alludes to it. Acts 9 it doesn't say Paul did, but we read him say later in Acts 14 that he spoke in tongues more than them all. So he did speak in tongues. But in both cases in Acts 8 and 9, the praying for them for the baptism in the Holy Spirit was at a different time than conversion. So they didn't believe one was baptized in the Holy Spirit just because they were born again. As a matter of fact, it was Jesus that sent Ananias to pray for Paul to be baptized in the Holy Spirit after he was born again on the road to Damascus, so even Jesus believes it is a separate experience. :)
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ReplyDeletegreat post! The only comment I want to add is, that everything a christian needs to know is in the Bible, and any prophesying that happens needs to correlate with scripture...the Bible is very clear about false prophets (especially in the last days), so it's vitally important not to get carried away with what people say. We have to make sure what people say does line up with what the Bible says.
DeleteJust another point of view for everyone who posted...From what I have understood from my readings as well as from others I have studied with, all of these things did end with the Apostles and completion of the
ReplyDeleteNew Testament. The common debate that I get from this scripture is in the phrase "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away". That which is perfect is indeed referring to the new "Law"...the New Testament.... Not Christ's return. Otherwise, it would say he who is perfect....Also, if it was about Christ's return, then what was in part that shall be done away with? The New "LAW" is to love....Which is perfect... That is why it will never fail. As far as far as speaking in tounges, Paul is thankful that he can speak in tounges, but actually discourages it in the Church... Verses 18 and 19: I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. Verse 22: Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers. As far as healing the sick, even in your examples: "Doctors have documented the dead being raised, blind people receiving sight, and cancer patients suddenly being cancer-free. To be very clear, there are documented cases of people without body parts suddenly having these restored. These have no natural explanation yet can be seen with the eyes and documented naturally. How then are these things explained?" non of these were from laying of the hands which was how it was done with Christ and the Apostles. Yes, these are gifts from God, but not from the power in people's hands. In the bible, when Jesus or the Apostles healed someone, the healing was instantanious. There is no one alive that can boast that or has been able to document that today. Usually false teachers will pull the, well, your faith was not strong enough excuse when people do not heal. I have witnessed it. In my life I have know some very good, faithful and knowledgeable Christians who all thought they have healing powers. Have yet to see it work. On fellow co-worker of mine knows every scripture in the bible and is very devout...She said she laid healing hands on a loved one and healed them. The next day, that person who was "healed", died. Why would God let her look like a fool if she was that faithful?
I certainly respect your position, but I am also eager to respond; and I assume since you publicly posted, you expected responses.
Delete1. Part vs Perfection : New Covenant vs. Second coming
The first point I want to make here is Ephesians 4:11-13 where Paul says, "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, TO A PERFECT MAN, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..." If we apply your interpretation of what Paul means by perfection to this Scripture, then it would indeed mean WE have become perfect; that WE have come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. But, in truth, Paul meant something different; and his writings reflect that. Let's examine a few key passages.
The first one is Romans 8:23-25, "...but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we are SAVED in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see we eagerly wait for it with perseverance." Paul is expressing here that our bodies are subject to pain and sin, but we eagerly wait in hope for our resurrection bodies which will be free from these corruptions. He also points out that we don't hope for what we see, but for what is NOT YET SEEN (I don't know how to embolden in comments:).
1 Cor 15:50-54 explains this hope of resurrection in more detail: "Now this I say brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible had put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."" In accordance with this passage, it is clear that Paul refers to a later time when incorruption shall be realized and experienced; a time when we will no longer be partakers of the part, the firstfruits of the Spirit, but we shall experience the fullness of Christ death, resurrection, and ascension; we will no longer be subject to sickness, disease, death, but we will be clothed in immortality. This is a future event, to which we look with eager expectation: a hope that is immovable. Nevertheless, keep in mind, we do yet experience a FIRSTFRUITS of that hope, which is, without difficulty, understood as the gifts of the Spirit in this context.
The second point, in short, is this: the New Covenant had already been established (but not yet fully realized) before Paul wrote to the Corinthians. Jesus had already died, rose, and ascended, establishing the Law of Love, and yet these gifts of the Spirit continued to be manifested in the church. So the gifts certainly did not cease to exist after the New Law came in Jesus.
2. Tongues
DeleteNow, referring to your comments about tongues, Paul discourages the use of tongues in the church UNLESS one interprets. He certainly does NOT condemn tongues in any manner; in fact he THANKS GOD that he speaks in tongues more than the Corinthians; but for the edification and unification of the body, Paul says that tongues should not be used in corporate gatherings except that it is interpreted. And by the way, the "five intelligible words to instruct others," in context, most nearly refers to prophesy. Clearly, from this passage of Scripture, the gifts are CRUCIAL to the growth of the Body.
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Delete3. Good ol' Mr. Hume
DeleteThis point addresses the Huffington post article you posted. Here, I want to cite a book entitled, I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Athiest, by Frank Turek and Norman L. Geisler.
I began by spelling out Hume's anti-miracle argument and then moved on to critiquing it. Here is Hume's argument in syllogistic form:
1. Natural law is by definition a description of a regular occurrence.
2. A miracle is by definition a rare occurrence.
3. The evidence for the regular is always greater than that for the rare.
4. A wise man always bases his belief on the greater evidence.
5. Therefore, a wise man should never believe in miracles.
If those four premises are true, then the conclusion necessarily follows - the wise man should never believe in miracles. Unfortunately for Hume and for those over the years who have believed him, the argument has a false premise - premise 3 is not necessarily true. The evidence for the regular is not always greater than that for the rare.
At first glance this might not seem to be the case. In the age of instant replay, premise 3 seems to make sense. For example, a football referee sees a play from one angle at full speed, while we get to see it from several angles in slow motion. We have greater evidence seeing a play over and over again (the regular) than the ref who only sees it once (the rare).
But what may be true for a videotaped football game is not necessarily true for every event in life. To disprove premise 3 we only need to come up with one counterexample. We actually have several, and they are from Hume's own naturalistic worldview.
1. The origin of the universe happened only once. It was a rare, unrepeatable event, yet virtually every naturalist believes the Big Bang evidence proves that the universe exploded into being.
2. The origin of life happened only once. It too was a rare, unrepeatable event, yet every naturalist believes that life arose spontaneously from non-life somewhere on the earth or elsewhere in the universe.
3. The origin of new life forms also happened only once. Those rare, unrepeatable events are nevertheless dogmatically believed by most naturalists, who say it all happened by unobserved (i.e. rare) macroevolutionary processes.
4. In fact, the entire history of the world is comprised of rare unrepeatable events. For example, David Hume's own birth happened only once, but he had no trouble believing it occurred (I don't have enough faith to be an atheist, pp. 205-206).
Man, this post is going to be long. Hopefully somebody will read at least some of it :)
The article below that I found on Huffington Post and the book on miracles by Prof. Craig Keener will perhaps help you understand this truth.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-s-keener/miracles-in-the-bible-and-today_b_1274775.html
http://www.amazon.com/Miracles-Credibility-New-Testament-Accounts/dp/0801039525 : a link to the boo
DeleteMy current pastor is vigorously in his dispensationalism, despite my telling him that a Mexican woman had her sight restored to a blind eye when the spirit of the Curandero was cast out by another team doing house-to-house witnessing, around 1979. Do you have citations for the miracles you say were documented?
ReplyDeleteOne other thought- it has occurred to me that many, and maybe most, who believe for or against the miraculous gifts are, in a real sense, existentialists. They base their beliefs on their personal experiences, and how they were taught to believe!
Dear sir, it is my understanding that miraculous gifts were given to the apostles and the apostles could pass these along to someone else. But that person could not pass it along. These miraculous signs and gifts were used to confirm the word that was being preached by the Gospel writers. They did not have the advantage of the written word and these signs and wonders were used to confirm the words that they were speaking. When the apostles had died and the ones who the apostles gave the gift of miraculous signs and wonder to the miracles ceased. This is because the written word had become available at that time and no longer would miraculous signs and wonders be needed to confirm the word that they already had in print at that point. People now do not need signs or wonders as they have Gods infallible , undeniable , perfert word to turn too.
ReplyDelete